I don't agree with Bob B, and especially with his attitude. But IMHO this podcast was poor. First, how can you write about the events of the past few months and not discuss or even barely mention the election. Does Elaina think Lushenko actually won the election? (Nobody does, btw.) If not, does she think it matters? 2. The references to "paid" instigators, starting fights with police, e.g., is old and tired. Who paid them? It's as bad as a Southerner talking about outside agitators. 3. You can't attack someone like Svetlana Alexievich off-hand, without backing it up. Her books are great, esp Voices from Chernobyl and Unwomanly Face of War. (When you have time, pick up Voices.) 4. A lot of leftists support the Hong Kong protests and oppose Beijing's effort to suppress that movement. For us, it's natural that HK protesters recognize and support the opposition to a dictator who presides over phony elections, locks up the opposition, etc. 5. At the end, Elaina refers to Belarus Marxists who support the laboring people. I'd like to hear more about the Marxist left in the former Soviet bloc, instead of cliches about how popular color revolutions are always bad because the west supports them.
Why not? Anyway, it wasn't the vulture capitalists, or their "puppets" (as Elaina calls them) who stole the election, and imprisoned and beat up the opposition. Actions like Lukashenko's turn the population against him and his "system" (whatever that is).
I thought that my criticisms were pretty concrete, not abstract. But I'm not trying to start a fight. And I'm not trying to "win" an on-line debate, but to discuss what I thought the podcast missed. The Shock Doctrine is in my bookcase - it's a great book. (Do you have Voices from Chernobyl?) IMHO the left is right to criticize the west's efforts to undermine countries like Belarus, Ukraine, etc. That what the west does - of course, it offers support for "pro-democracy" movements when its real interest is expanding control of the world. But often the left finds itself tolerating or making excuses for dictators/thugs/criminals like Lukashenko and Yanukovych. IMHO the left will never be relevant in those countries (or elsewhere) until it can propose an alternative to both. I was hoping that's what Elaina was starting to talk about at the end of her podcast. (I remember, in 1982, telling a friend that the American people will never accept socialism as long as they think it means Brezhnev.) I look forward to your article - here's to a better world - best - P
It is not like a southerner talking about outside agitators because if you look at declassified CIA documents, wikileaks cable leaks, there has been nearly a 30-year- plot by NATO and the US (admitted by themselves) to destabilize Belarus.
Who paid them, check this out. I have documented much.
This point of view is very narrow in my opinion. It skips the entire history of 26 years of dictatorship. It does not take into consideration years of blocking ANY opposition to current dictator and YEARs of people leaving without any sign of democracy. Every country has connections to its neighbors, so I do not see this conflict as fight for euro-Belarus against Russia-Belarus. I see this as Belarus people having enough of current dictatorship and wanting change. This change was being brutally dwarfed through jailing, beating, raping of regular people, young and old.
No you see this is why you are a fucking idiot. You think this a point.
Basically everyone in Belarus is a native Russian speaker. This has nothing to do with their politics. That you think it's a point to say "Belarus has a lot of Russian speakers" demonstrates your sheer, utter, incorrigible ignorance. Everyone coming out against Lukashenko is, to use your term, is a "linguistic russian"
What was interesting about this pod is you couldn't even get someone born in raised in belarus, essentially all of whom are linguistic russians, you ignorant fucking FSB stooge.
I don't agree with Bob B, and especially with his attitude. But IMHO this podcast was poor. First, how can you write about the events of the past few months and not discuss or even barely mention the election. Does Elaina think Lushenko actually won the election? (Nobody does, btw.) If not, does she think it matters? 2. The references to "paid" instigators, starting fights with police, e.g., is old and tired. Who paid them? It's as bad as a Southerner talking about outside agitators. 3. You can't attack someone like Svetlana Alexievich off-hand, without backing it up. Her books are great, esp Voices from Chernobyl and Unwomanly Face of War. (When you have time, pick up Voices.) 4. A lot of leftists support the Hong Kong protests and oppose Beijing's effort to suppress that movement. For us, it's natural that HK protesters recognize and support the opposition to a dictator who presides over phony elections, locks up the opposition, etc. 5. At the end, Elaina refers to Belarus Marxists who support the laboring people. I'd like to hear more about the Marxist left in the former Soviet bloc, instead of cliches about how popular color revolutions are always bad because the west supports them.
Is it even possible to have a fair election when you have vulture capitalists are circling the country?
Why not? Anyway, it wasn't the vulture capitalists, or their "puppets" (as Elaina calls them) who stole the election, and imprisoned and beat up the opposition. Actions like Lukashenko's turn the population against him and his "system" (whatever that is).
I am going to write an article. Stop being abstract and delve into the concrete.
If you are trying to win, I'm not Interested. If you want a better world, please read the shock doctrine and killing hope.
I won't argue because we are arguing from two different worlds.
If winning matters, I concede the argument to you!
I'd rather win the fight for a better world.
I thought that my criticisms were pretty concrete, not abstract. But I'm not trying to start a fight. And I'm not trying to "win" an on-line debate, but to discuss what I thought the podcast missed. The Shock Doctrine is in my bookcase - it's a great book. (Do you have Voices from Chernobyl?) IMHO the left is right to criticize the west's efforts to undermine countries like Belarus, Ukraine, etc. That what the west does - of course, it offers support for "pro-democracy" movements when its real interest is expanding control of the world. But often the left finds itself tolerating or making excuses for dictators/thugs/criminals like Lukashenko and Yanukovych. IMHO the left will never be relevant in those countries (or elsewhere) until it can propose an alternative to both. I was hoping that's what Elaina was starting to talk about at the end of her podcast. (I remember, in 1982, telling a friend that the American people will never accept socialism as long as they think it means Brezhnev.) I look forward to your article - here's to a better world - best - P
of course they were concrete
the old quote about hard to get somone to understand something when their salary depends on not doing so
It is not like a southerner talking about outside agitators because if you look at declassified CIA documents, wikileaks cable leaks, there has been nearly a 30-year- plot by NATO and the US (admitted by themselves) to destabilize Belarus.
Who paid them, check this out. I have documented much.
https://twitter.com/eshaLegal/status/1294742689326477316?s=20.
This point of view is very narrow in my opinion. It skips the entire history of 26 years of dictatorship. It does not take into consideration years of blocking ANY opposition to current dictator and YEARs of people leaving without any sign of democracy. Every country has connections to its neighbors, so I do not see this conflict as fight for euro-Belarus against Russia-Belarus. I see this as Belarus people having enough of current dictatorship and wanting change. This change was being brutally dwarfed through jailing, beating, raping of regular people, young and old.
Stay tuned. We have also interviewed Alexander Buzgalin. He will get the 26 years of history for you in a week or two.
Wow, another non-Belarussian xD. Weird how you can't get one single Belarussian person on the pod.
Also, Buzgalin thinks Stalin was bad, which in your own stated view means you think he's not someone to take seriously
Sure. But Elaina sees it differently
lol there is literally no way to verify who this person even is. And it seems she's Russian, not Belarussian, by her own admission.
How much do your handlers pay you
She is Russian who lives in Belarus. It is pretty common.
I wish I had handlers paying me.
So, you couldn't even find an actual Belarussian to come on the pod. God you are such a joke Esha
Uh.. no. Belarus has a large population of linguistic Russians.
No you see this is why you are a fucking idiot. You think this a point.
Basically everyone in Belarus is a native Russian speaker. This has nothing to do with their politics. That you think it's a point to say "Belarus has a lot of Russian speakers" demonstrates your sheer, utter, incorrigible ignorance. Everyone coming out against Lukashenko is, to use your term, is a "linguistic russian"
What was interesting about this pod is you couldn't even get someone born in raised in belarus, essentially all of whom are linguistic russians, you ignorant fucking FSB stooge.