Today, on twitter, someone asked a rather bizarre question about Russia, Ukraine, and Israel and Palestine.
of course, I can write a long piece about the difference in history, material conditions, time span, space, geopolitical realities and capitalism. But it would be long, maybe boring and not thoroughly.
Today, I want everyone to contribute to this thread. Please answer the question seriously. Unrelated comments, personal insults, profainity, discrimination and harassment will be deleted.
One is a State being created on top of and crushing another peoples why the other is an outside force actually defending people who no longer want to be part of a State who shows them nothing but violence. There is nothing to compare.
Israel is blockading food into Gaza. Russia is not.
Gaza has been under perpetual siege by Israel. The murderous escalations by Israeli forces against Palestinians are part that status quo. Russia's military operation is a genuine break from normal relations with a clear goal in mind that, despite how one may wish to believe otherwise, is not "the elimination of the Ukrainian people". Gaza's mere existence, on the other hand undermines Israel's legitimacy given its nature as a settler colonial state. As history has demonstrated numerous times, such states rely on ethnic cleansing/genocide of the indigenous to establish their legitimacy.
What a crazy comparison. The Palestinians aren’t a proxy for a malevolent superpower, quite the opposite, and the only ‘threat’ they pose to Israel is to it’s fascist nature.
First, the operation in Ukraine is undertaken to restore soverign governance to Ukraine after the US couped it in 08 and 14. In Palestinians occupy the opposite position in this dynamic to the Ukranians. Their soverignty was robbed from them in the Nakba. Additionally the Israelis and the Ukranians are both client states of the US while the Palestinians and Russians are antagonized by the US.
Secondly, the modality of operations is quite different. Israelis target civilians as a matter of policy and the Russians took losses purposefully to minimize civilian casualties.
Third, the autonomy of the regions in which Russia acts is respected: the US news media is loathe to cover the many referenda taken in Donetsk and Luhansk where the population voted OVERWHELMINGLY to leave Ukraine and become independent. Likely they will seek to join the Russian Federation soon enough.
Fourth, the occupation has been ongoing in Palestine since the 40s and is basically new from 2014 in Ukraine. This shapes every aspect of the conflict. The Ukranians do not have the same level of apartheid established, though the leadership would have no problem. The fortifications of the Ukrainian army are not comparable to the separation wall and giant open air prison enclaves that de facto form Palestine's borders.
Fifth: the Russian operation shares with the Palestinians a counter hegemonic nature which Israel is in staunch opposition to as a barely disguised proxy of the US.
Sixth: the Ukranians receive major logistical support from the US as well as material and intelligence support. In the Palestine conflict, these are rendered to Israel.
The fifth point is perhaps the most easily understood and most critical: to compare Israel to Russia is to invert the position of oppressor and oppressed by considering extremely crudely the form of the military action Even the most brash and incendiary advocates of "Israel" would lack the verbiage to credulously deny this.
These two are the most incomparable situations in the world. Therefore, I was wondering how people would react to this. Are they merely looking at aesthetics? propaganda? That's why I thought I would bring this up.
You are mistaken. Israel’s response was targeted specifically to kill and destroy Islamic Jihad terrorist leadership. In fact in every instance of previous Israeli action has been in response to rocket fire from the Palestinian side.
Russian tactics support indiscriminate illegal acts that deliberately target civilians. They do not follow the concept of targeted military strikes. In any war there will be collateral damage. The difference is that Israel is the ONLY Nation that had been successfully limiting civilian casualties when responding to rocket attacks.
Yeah right, bud. They are literally hitting residential buildings with missiles. They took Palestine by force. Israel is the sole provocateur. People whose lands are occupied get to use whatever tactics they want. Most of the Palestinian rockets deliberately miss civilians despite having no targeting capabilities outside of trajectory. Israel massacres dozens regularly and with "smart" munitions that cannot be said to accidentally hit civilians. Shit, they just killed five children in their most recent bloodbath. serious. You're straight up lying.
The Russians haven't target any civilians as a matter of policy. Ukrops are hiding their tanks and batteries in residential areas looking to find up bad optics. You are a breathless apologist for empire. You're an unhinged advocate of mass killings of colonized population.
The entire state of Israel is an act of aggression. Just like the US
Ah Kerry very cute, but sooo typical of the hate filled Israel. Israel is running an open Ghetto just like they did in Nazi Germany. stealing homes destroying crops. Just like Ukraine started demanding no Russian speakers, and finally told anyone that was Russian to leave or die. Using Nazis to do the work slaughtering Russian people of Donbas with target practice for 8 years. The only thing Israel has in common with Ukraine is the US government and it’s owners
Oh, you are so deluded. There is no comparison between the Jewish Ghettos during the Nazi Era and the plight of Palestinians in Gaza is both offensive and totally inaccurate. There is no State sanction of genocide against the Palestinians by Israelis, although the Palestinians are quick to respond with talk of mass killing of Jews. Real Ukrainians would love to see its Russian-speaking minority leave Ukrainian territory. Dombass is run by disgruntled Russian-Ukrainians who have been egged on by Russia, because of Putin’s dream of rebuilding and annexing all the former Soviet autonomous regions including Ukraine, Lithuania, Georgia, Estonia, kraine, Georgia, Belorussia, Uzbekistan, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Moldova, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Latvia. You had better brush up on your debating skills because your understanding of Russian History and Politics and its relationship with iformer Soviet Republics is peppered with errors of deep misunderstanding of facts.
Clearly just like all of Israel you chose not to see, just like the Germans and pols chose not to see the crematoriums. Right, Ukrainian Nazis have nothing to do with the outlawing of the Russian Language refusing to follow through with Minsk agreement, Bombing Donbas and Luhansk for the last 8 years, committing genocide in Odessa, tying Russian speakers to telephone poles and abusing them. Torturing and killing prisoners. Just like Israel they justify Nazi behavior to fit there own evilness.
What utter rubbish making a false narrative comparing Russia’s NAzI behaviors to Israel’s Right to defend itself from Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s 1000+ rockets shot into Israel in direct violation of Israel’s territorial integrity. 36 Islamic Jihad leaders were killed by surgical targeted attacks. The claim of killing civilians is disputed by the FACT that some of Islamic Nihad rockets failed and crashed into civilian Palestinian areas. There are videos in the public domain that show exactly who was responsible for killing civilians. Moreover, local Palestinians in the place where the rocket fell demonstrated angrily at Islamic Jihad, not the IDF. You are spewing emotional diatribes, but none of what you have written is honestly truthful information. You are hardly in position to question my knowledge of the facts on the ground. Stop your Antisemitic Demonization of Israel. It is disgusting to see how ignorant you are. Finally, May I remind you that Palestinians have been illegally holding Israeli civilians as hostages for years now — torturing and not providing medical attention to those who are sick and dying. Your remarks are inflammatory and unacceptable. I’m tired of debating amateurs individuals who cannot think for themselves and verify their sources, and dispute facts when they are brought to your attention. I’m outta of here.
Good post. Anyone - politicians, citizens who celebrate the interventions of the US in destabilizing other countries can expect the same continuing effects at home. We reap what we sow. Everyone needs to understand this is the true blowback. Think we can support insanity abroad and not suffer the same effects ourselves? No.
Ukr/Rus is a proxy war that serves the West and the other is an apartheid of people supported by the West. About the only common thing about the two situations is the serve the West and capitalism.
I don't see how the two situations are much alike. Israel has been pulling an apartheid of the Palestinians and Russia invaded Ukraine because Russian speakers were being murdered in a civil war. The only thing "alike" is Israel and Ukraine who feel they are superior to the people they are persecuting.
This kind of question can come only from a) a historically uninformed person or b) an ideological hack.
For the historically uninformed, Gaza is part of historic Palestine and Israel is the result of political Zionism, a settler colonial ethnic cleansing project hatched among non religious Jewish intellectuals as exactly such, settler colonial, within the logic of European settler colonialism. It was only possible with the collaboration of British imperialism in Palestine. We know that many parts of today's Ukraine were part of historic Russia and then USSR, we know that the lines after 1991 of Russia were haphazardly drawn, we know that the US qua US and as the head of NATO is absolutely interested in fragmenting any country that poses a threat to his imperial hegemony. I'm not going to rehearse that history, which is not an area of expertise. Rather I read and listen to people who know.
Well, we have plenty of good episodes. I just started this thread to see how others would interact if given such a comment. It's always good to infuse yourself with other people's ideas and thoughts!
You sound like a parrot for the Palestinian cause. There have been Jews in Palestine way long before the post-WW2 migration of European Jewish refugees. You seem to suffer from selective amnesia.
Palestine has been on the receiving end of anglo-european military aggression. Ukraine, on the other hand, has been receiving military and financial support by the same anglo-european powers for the sole purpose of containing Russia and by extension - Eurasia. Simply Palestine and Ukraine are polar opposites. Anyone who says these two are the same either do not know any better or DO NOT WANT to know any better.
Israel occupies palestine based on pure historical claims, internationally accepted due to holocaust and existing for 75 years .
Ukraine is happening for current reasons .
russia gave up ukraine at a weak moment due to collapse of USSR and has not tried to take it back till EU / NATO made it a contest and wanted ukraine in EU and started their campaign of insults to memory of WW-2, Banning any thing russian/ communist ( already perfected in baltics,poland) to ukraine .
As putin explained, russia has nowhere to go .Also ukraine is the one who is killing people
Ukraine: a US puppet state based around an extremely large Neo-Nazi kill squads tasked with ethnically cleansing to Donbass region to claim ownership of their industrial capital and function as NATO's staging ground for an array of nuclear capable mk. 41 VLS missile turrets trained on Russia with a ~5 minute flight time to Moscow, thus turning Ukraine into a literal doormat into Russia for US/NATO.
Palestine/Gaza: an indigenous community converted into an open air extermination camp by Israel with full and unconditional backing by the US in pursuit of beachfront property.
Granted it's a subtle difference, easy to miss but once you see it you can't stop seeing it. 🙃
More like there's a similarity between Israel and Ukraine in that they get plenty of funding from the US for weapons and training and then when you call them out on the monstrosities the little minions and bots come out of the woodwork to whine and attack you for it.
Also I love that some of them think you're with Amnesty 😂🤣🤦
Someone from Amnesty shared an article that I wrote. Somehow, Bad Baltic Takes decided to use some lame tweets I had to distract from the article. Apparently BBT followers are not very good at this literacy thing and they think I am with Amnesty and not that I wrote an article tweeted out by someone in Amnesty.
The fallacy of Keith's question is that he totally ignores Donbass. Donbass fighting Ukrainian fascist government for 8 long years. And fighting for its independency from Kiev. On Feb 22 2022 Russia stepping in and recognizing LDPR. On Feb 24 2022 LDPR asking for military support and Russia as an ally stepping in. Simple as that.
If you want to draw a parallel it would be like: Kiev = Israel and Donbass = Palestine. Russia helping her small brother. But cancel culture within corporative MSM did its dirty job: Donbass as a topic has been totally ignored yet cancelled deleted since 2014.
The current regime in Ukraine is not fascist. The leadership was supported by a majority of Ukrainians. The Russian-speaking minority in Ukraine is the result of Stalinist policy to prop up support (by undemocratic means) of the Soviet colonial occupation of Ukraine. It’s no different than China’s occupation of Tibet or the Xianjang Province and other minority regions of the Peoples’ Republic. Zzzzzzzzzzz.
This is historicly not banderaly. I am Ukrainian. My grandfathers died fighting Nazis. We will not go backwards. We know where we come from. We will not turn our backs on our family and friends, our traditions and lineage. I reject your cynical revisionism.
The Ukrainian president was voted in after running on a peace ticket all Ukrainians wanted peace except the Nazi gangs, and of course the us. And mr I want peace for Ukraine caved into the nazi and Nato nazi right away these thing happen to drug addicts. In case you are completely ignorant of the history of Ukraine. Russia gave up The eastern regions and did it’s best to try and resolve the issue with Ukraine with the Minsk agreement. Your little drug addict did nothing nor did the Germans or French all the while your nazi friend were attacking civilians. Russia stepped in to stop the Nazis stop the biological weapons facilities and prevent the nazis from getting nuclear weapons not to mention keeping Nato and the us out.
Israel's assault on Palestinians is ethnic cleansing. They believe they are superior human beings endowed by God to murder Palestinians and steal their land. This very much resembles Nazi rhetoric of "ubermenschen". The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a very different thing. It would take too long to describe the situation, but basically it is a war engineered by the US . Forever wars are profitable for the oligarchs who actually control world politics. They pretend to care about civilian casualities when it promotes their agenda as in Ukraine, but in other situations as in Palestine, they do not.
What Israel “does” is different because the US Congress appropriates “aid money” to Israel each year when it authorizes a new US budget. This isn’t actually contradictory because our foreign aid to Israel directly increases *our* GDP, since it’s split into little pieces that can only be spent on, say, components for the Iron Dome or the bombs that killed 15 children in the last few days, and Congress further specifies the exact weapons manufacturers Israel may redeem this coupon and that coupon with. It’s like we send them a bunch of pre-filled personal checks from the Treasury to Lockheed, Northrop, Boeing, etc, with what kind of deadly product each check is for neatly typed on the notes section of the check. In a real sense these are American air strikes, in which the munitions have been selected by Congress and paid for with funds procured by Congress supposedly from American tax dollars (though of course that’s not how the federal government experiences manipulating its own currency). Effectively though it’s not wrong to call it tax money siphoned from Americans directly to defense contractors to subsidize GDP by exactly the amount Congress wishes. When you watch a video of an Israeli airstrike on an apartment building in Gaza, you’re probably watching innocent people die, but you’re also viewing the result of an unthinkably depraved version of quantitative easing (which is already depraved enough IMO). Then the ruling class of America claps because the line on their stock portfolios goes up, and they’re fine with the consequences.
Note I’m not even getting into the most obvious difference, that Israel is an apartheid state literally founded alongside apartheid South Africa... It’s not worth wasting time explaining something so obvious, is it?
On the other hand, in Russia/Ukraine, Congress passed a new lend/lease act so Ukraine is receiving their deadly weaponry from the US defense industry like Israel except that it’s not at all like Israel because at some point they run out of stockpiles and start producing more and Ukraine legally by act of Congress and Biden’s signature sends them little IOUs with no expectation or real obligation or plausible ability to ever pay us back. Biden demands Congress provide more foreign aid to Ukraine for “defense” every couple weeks, but Zelensky doesn’t need to use it to purchase weaponry from the US. We can now “lend” the heavy equipment to Kiev... sorry, “Kyiv”... at no cost to them. I’m not sympathetic to capital, but the line on the élite’s portfolios doesn’t go up when Ukraine incinerates Russian infantry using our massively expensive drones strapped with explosives like kamikaze homing devices. You’d think capital would be more irritated by that--that when they see footage of Ukrainian heavy artillery it isn’t a visual of their wealth increasing in direct proportion to how big the smoke plumes are. It’s *not* quantitative easing with the unnecessary proxy war step included because our politicians think that’s sensible legislative text to include, the US is in a sense seizing profits and suppressing the contribution of the defense industry to GDP because Putin Bad, they’re nostalgic for the constant terror of the Cold War but don’t have much longer to live anyway so the risks aren’t real to them, whatever, take your pick, there isn’t a single rational choice theorist who can invent a plausible motivation for every DC Beltway ghoul on this one.
They’re very different! This is a rant about one facet of how different they are. Just... put the propaganda down and think for a second, seriously confused twitter user in Esha’s mentions! You’l come up with something from the dozens and dozens of differences, I believe in you.
Congress appropriated a flat $3 billion for Israeli military aid *every single year* from 1979 to 2019 (unfortunately, predictably, it was increased dramatically to $3.8b, not lowered). $3 billion in guaranteed annual padding to one industry, beginning at a time when America’s argument for global acquiescence to the so-called virtues of our rules based economic/imperial order relied on us being able to tout the “proof” of our defense industry posting profit after profit compared to the domestic economic conditions our Cold War foes faced as a result of us intervening in every way to kneecap their progress... this is a run-on sentence now, but 1979 wasn’t long after stagflation, and just about when we stopped pretending the UN had legitimacy to affect America’s bad behavior internationally, etc etc, it was a pretty telling year to institute a de facto mandatory $3 billion for Israel to pay right back to us in the NDAA every year. 1979’s American political & military leadership must’ve been remarkably insecure about the stability of their supposedly unshakable grand ideological project to do proto-QE 30 years before actual QE began, is all I’m saying.
Why all this talk about 1979? Well, people only know him nowadays for building houses for the poor & homeless and whatnot, but Jimmy Carter presided over a certain energy crisis that year sparked by the Iranian Revolution. He chose to address the ensuing recession with pretty radical (at the time) applications of neoliberal economic theory. The dude was in many ways the first neolib POTUS. Reagan and Clinton made it impossible to escape what Carter opened the door to, but yeah, $3 billion in military aid to Israel designed to return to American industry like a boomerang in 1979--when GDP was $2.6 trillion--was very significant and very corrupt and I don’t hear it brought up as much as it should be. It’s sort of a microcosm of a lot of things going wrong for the west and the first glimpse of the absolute cowardice we’ve maintained our illusion of a status quo with for so long. In actuality, lift the magic tricks of economists’ clever manipulation of data away and it’s all been in constant decay.
No one said there weren't Jews, Palestinian Jews and Jews from all over region and world. Don't confuse Jews with the European settler colonial Zionist project. My last comment to you.
God promised them Palestine 4,000 years ago and it is still theirs. 2) They won the 1948 and 1967 wars and victory allowed them to claim the territory they conquered. This is 2022. Is an approximately 4000 year old promise by their God still good? Israel had sovereignty over Palestine for much less than 1/2 of that 4000 years. Jesus seems to indicate that the land promise lapsed in 67 AD because of bad behavior. As far as land being a spoil of war, that was definitely accepted through most of history. But modern international law and war crimes law has moved away from allowing the stronger nations from taking what they want from the weaker nations even if the weaker nations start the war.
I just removed the comment because it was the same comment twice.
Well, I think the bigger issue is not Israel as a state per se..but Israel as an exclusionary state that excludes majority of the people living on that land. ...
I am sympathetic to both Israel and Russia, but I think Israel can make a somewhat stronger case for its actions:
Gaza, like the Westbank, is allegedly populated by Palestinians.
Prior to 1967, Gaza was controlled by Egypt and the Westbank was controlled by Jordan
In those days, no one said that the arab states of Egypt and Jordan were standing in the way of Palestinian Soverrignity. (There is no Palestinian language or religion and there has never been a Palestinian state. Palestinian identity was a fabrication designed to undermine Israel. They are ARABS, they are not Palestinians)
In 1967, Egypt, Jordan and Syria sought to destroy Israel. Israel won in the 6 day war. In defeating her foes, she held on to territories she had taken.
She was entitled to hold on to those territories. Without the occupied territories Israel would be 9 miles thick at its point of greatest population concentration and vulnerable to swift annihilation in a renewed Arab attack.
NEVERTHELESS, Israel agreed to withdraw from Gaza.
And the barbarous Arabs of Gaza constantly send missiles North into Israel.
Before Israel vacated Gaza, they left factories and money-making assets in Gaza to assist the Arabs.
And the Arabs show their thanks by raining missiles on Israel.
Russia’s “military” response is an illegal invasion of Ukraine’s territorial sovereignty.
In the case of Israel’s response it is legal under International law and UN rules for Israel to defend its territorial integrity because Israel is defending itself against rocket attacks FROM the Hamas terrorist organization. The aggressor in this particular case was and is not Israel, but the Palestinian Terrorist group. Furthermore, the Gaza Strip is NOT occupied by Israel, and Gaza itself is part of the disputed territories that await a final negotiated solution.
Why does your assumption in your question ignore Hamas’s offensive and illegal actions whilst blaming Israel for defending itself? Every country has a Right and a Duty to protect and defend its territory and its people. May I suggest you read up on the rules of war.
Hamas is responsible for its people, NOT Israel. Israel restricts Palestinian exit ports because the Palestinians continuously attack the State of Israel. Israel has a Right to send itself f to m terrorist attacks. You forget, we are not living in a situation of being surrounded by countries and organizations that DENY the legitimacy of Israel.
Israel allows commerce to enter Gaza from Egypt. When are the Palestinians going to take real responsibility to rein in Terrorism? The majority of both sides — civilians simply want to live in peace. As long as this tit-for-tat attacks / retaliation occurs, THERE IS LITTLE CHANCE FOR PEACE. It is so obvious. The blame goes to both sides for weak and narrow-minded leadership politics. There was a chance for peace but both sides ultimately could not trust each other to focus on diplomacy and not violence.
Israel and Egypt close said corridor during Israeli sieges on Gaza. It’s a big reason Egypt cares at all about trying to negotiating ceasefires as they just did this weekend, it affects their economy.
Also, what makes the elected leadership of any nation specifically “terrorist” I wonder? Is it the use of force before coming to power instead of only once they have a monopoly on state violence? Of course not, that would apply to most world governments and I suspiciously only ever hear this concept of terrorist-governance applied to Hamas and the Taliban. If Palestinian Gaza & the West Bank aren’t actually legitimate to someone, e.g. just some land in Israel that terrorists laid claim to a la ISIS’ caliphate, then how can they suggest it is Hamas, the elected government of Gaza, that bears responsibility for its citizens losing or keeping their lives? I thought Hamas were terrorists. Shifting baselines are strong here. And again, In my 32 years I’ve only heard the political leadership of internationally recognized nations referred to as terrorist in Gaza, Afghanistan, Iraq but not for some time, Iran, Libya, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Colombia...
Hmm I’m approaching a theme here, interesting that even as long as Russia has been the West’s boogeyman, when we’re only interacting here today because many can’t grasp the basic features of the Russian invasion or the unprovoked bombing of Gaza by Israel last week, such that these events ought to be somehow flattened into being just the same, Putin gets called a thug and worse than Hitler but the members of the Russian government, Putin included, aren’t dismissed as literal terrorists without state legitimacy. Neither is Ukraine’s government, whose leaders were placed in power following a Western-run coup which yes, used violence before it led the state military, and since coming to power has invited literal Nazis to spearhead its most sensitive military operations under the training of US military members. Now does that mean the Ukrainian people should be caught in this invasion? No. Does it mean Zelensky’s party is merely a crew of terrorists playing at statecraft and not a respected actor internationally? If you believe it about Hamas, logically Ukraine isn’t run by politicians but terrorists, because the logic applies just as well. But no, the EU is courting them, not to mention NATO, so no side of the conflict is called terrorists. This only seems okay to anyone in the western empire whenever they’re Europeans, whenever they look more or less like our own leaders, whenever said leaders put these non-terrorist white democracy defenders into power and pretends to care about them as more than puppets for proxy wars, the closer you drift to the equator it stops mattering and it becomes not just possible bud common sense to have this absurd notion that nations are run by disorganized, barbaric terrorists. Not even state sponsors of terrorism in these cases, just, Hamas is a bunch of terrorists.
Some people could use a dictionary almost as much as I need to remember that paragraphs should still be a thing even when I’m sick in bed straight up ranting on my phone... gosh. But this has pissed me off since I was 12 watching CNN push that it was our duty to invade Iraq because Saddam and his government were terrorists out to get us like Al Qaeda. Terrorists can’t be the state, the dry definition of terrorism is violence carried out in order to force changes in state policy. When a government wants to force changes in another state’s government it doesn’t engage in terrorist acts, they’re called acts of war at that point instead!!!
Yah right Israel allows starvation commerce in. Always enough to say it lets it in but never enough to keep it healthy We call that slow genocide just like in the polish ghetto
You are referring to Russian speaking immigrants who were strategically relocated to Ukraine during Stalin’s time to manage the occupied government of that era. Same has occurred in all of the former Soviet Republics that are technically Independent of Russia in the “Russian Federation. The Chinese Communist Party has done much the same in Tibet, Xianjang Province. Shall I go on?
Your point is irrelevant, because these breakaway regions of Ukraine were a majority Russian-speaking minority that refused to remain as part of Ukraine. Stalin, like Mao and other Totalitarian (Communist States) practiced ethnic intimidation by forcefully resettling Russians in Ukraine to better control the the region. Russian leadership is quick to forget and ignore that Ukraine was occupied during the era of Soviet Hegemony. Same goes for all the Central Asian now independent Republics like Tajikistan, etc.
The lunatic has no idea of the history of Russia or Asia for that matter, he just pontificates thinking like Blinkin we will all fall in line. Some of us actually know Russia and Chinese history. Israel doesn’t teach history it teaches fantasy propaganda
One is a State being created on top of and crushing another peoples why the other is an outside force actually defending people who no longer want to be part of a State who shows them nothing but violence. There is nothing to compare.
Israel is blockading food into Gaza. Russia is not.
Gaza has been under perpetual siege by Israel. The murderous escalations by Israeli forces against Palestinians are part that status quo. Russia's military operation is a genuine break from normal relations with a clear goal in mind that, despite how one may wish to believe otherwise, is not "the elimination of the Ukrainian people". Gaza's mere existence, on the other hand undermines Israel's legitimacy given its nature as a settler colonial state. As history has demonstrated numerous times, such states rely on ethnic cleansing/genocide of the indigenous to establish their legitimacy.
What a crazy comparison. The Palestinians aren’t a proxy for a malevolent superpower, quite the opposite, and the only ‘threat’ they pose to Israel is to it’s fascist nature.
Palestine and Ukraine are not alike:
First, the operation in Ukraine is undertaken to restore soverign governance to Ukraine after the US couped it in 08 and 14. In Palestinians occupy the opposite position in this dynamic to the Ukranians. Their soverignty was robbed from them in the Nakba. Additionally the Israelis and the Ukranians are both client states of the US while the Palestinians and Russians are antagonized by the US.
Secondly, the modality of operations is quite different. Israelis target civilians as a matter of policy and the Russians took losses purposefully to minimize civilian casualties.
Third, the autonomy of the regions in which Russia acts is respected: the US news media is loathe to cover the many referenda taken in Donetsk and Luhansk where the population voted OVERWHELMINGLY to leave Ukraine and become independent. Likely they will seek to join the Russian Federation soon enough.
Fourth, the occupation has been ongoing in Palestine since the 40s and is basically new from 2014 in Ukraine. This shapes every aspect of the conflict. The Ukranians do not have the same level of apartheid established, though the leadership would have no problem. The fortifications of the Ukrainian army are not comparable to the separation wall and giant open air prison enclaves that de facto form Palestine's borders.
Fifth: the Russian operation shares with the Palestinians a counter hegemonic nature which Israel is in staunch opposition to as a barely disguised proxy of the US.
Sixth: the Ukranians receive major logistical support from the US as well as material and intelligence support. In the Palestine conflict, these are rendered to Israel.
The fifth point is perhaps the most easily understood and most critical: to compare Israel to Russia is to invert the position of oppressor and oppressed by considering extremely crudely the form of the military action Even the most brash and incendiary advocates of "Israel" would lack the verbiage to credulously deny this.
These two are the most incomparable situations in the world. Therefore, I was wondering how people would react to this. Are they merely looking at aesthetics? propaganda? That's why I thought I would bring this up.
You are mistaken. Israel’s response was targeted specifically to kill and destroy Islamic Jihad terrorist leadership. In fact in every instance of previous Israeli action has been in response to rocket fire from the Palestinian side.
Russian tactics support indiscriminate illegal acts that deliberately target civilians. They do not follow the concept of targeted military strikes. In any war there will be collateral damage. The difference is that Israel is the ONLY Nation that had been successfully limiting civilian casualties when responding to rocket attacks.
Yeah right, bud. They are literally hitting residential buildings with missiles. They took Palestine by force. Israel is the sole provocateur. People whose lands are occupied get to use whatever tactics they want. Most of the Palestinian rockets deliberately miss civilians despite having no targeting capabilities outside of trajectory. Israel massacres dozens regularly and with "smart" munitions that cannot be said to accidentally hit civilians. Shit, they just killed five children in their most recent bloodbath. serious. You're straight up lying.
The Russians haven't target any civilians as a matter of policy. Ukrops are hiding their tanks and batteries in residential areas looking to find up bad optics. You are a breathless apologist for empire. You're an unhinged advocate of mass killings of colonized population.
The entire state of Israel is an act of aggression. Just like the US
Ah Kerry very cute, but sooo typical of the hate filled Israel. Israel is running an open Ghetto just like they did in Nazi Germany. stealing homes destroying crops. Just like Ukraine started demanding no Russian speakers, and finally told anyone that was Russian to leave or die. Using Nazis to do the work slaughtering Russian people of Donbas with target practice for 8 years. The only thing Israel has in common with Ukraine is the US government and it’s owners
Oh, you are so deluded. There is no comparison between the Jewish Ghettos during the Nazi Era and the plight of Palestinians in Gaza is both offensive and totally inaccurate. There is no State sanction of genocide against the Palestinians by Israelis, although the Palestinians are quick to respond with talk of mass killing of Jews. Real Ukrainians would love to see its Russian-speaking minority leave Ukrainian territory. Dombass is run by disgruntled Russian-Ukrainians who have been egged on by Russia, because of Putin’s dream of rebuilding and annexing all the former Soviet autonomous regions including Ukraine, Lithuania, Georgia, Estonia, kraine, Georgia, Belorussia, Uzbekistan, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Moldova, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Latvia. You had better brush up on your debating skills because your understanding of Russian History and Politics and its relationship with iformer Soviet Republics is peppered with errors of deep misunderstanding of facts.
Sure Kerry
Clearly just like all of Israel you chose not to see, just like the Germans and pols chose not to see the crematoriums. Right, Ukrainian Nazis have nothing to do with the outlawing of the Russian Language refusing to follow through with Minsk agreement, Bombing Donbas and Luhansk for the last 8 years, committing genocide in Odessa, tying Russian speakers to telephone poles and abusing them. Torturing and killing prisoners. Just like Israel they justify Nazi behavior to fit there own evilness.
What utter rubbish making a false narrative comparing Russia’s NAzI behaviors to Israel’s Right to defend itself from Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s 1000+ rockets shot into Israel in direct violation of Israel’s territorial integrity. 36 Islamic Jihad leaders were killed by surgical targeted attacks. The claim of killing civilians is disputed by the FACT that some of Islamic Nihad rockets failed and crashed into civilian Palestinian areas. There are videos in the public domain that show exactly who was responsible for killing civilians. Moreover, local Palestinians in the place where the rocket fell demonstrated angrily at Islamic Jihad, not the IDF. You are spewing emotional diatribes, but none of what you have written is honestly truthful information. You are hardly in position to question my knowledge of the facts on the ground. Stop your Antisemitic Demonization of Israel. It is disgusting to see how ignorant you are. Finally, May I remind you that Palestinians have been illegally holding Israeli civilians as hostages for years now — torturing and not providing medical attention to those who are sick and dying. Your remarks are inflammatory and unacceptable. I’m tired of debating amateurs individuals who cannot think for themselves and verify their sources, and dispute facts when they are brought to your attention. I’m outta of here.
PROPAGANDA.
Do you think this lizard brained pavlovian response has any effect?
Good post. Anyone - politicians, citizens who celebrate the interventions of the US in destabilizing other countries can expect the same continuing effects at home. We reap what we sow. Everyone needs to understand this is the true blowback. Think we can support insanity abroad and not suffer the same effects ourselves? No.
Ukr/Rus is a proxy war that serves the West and the other is an apartheid of people supported by the West. About the only common thing about the two situations is the serve the West and capitalism.
Indeed. That's exactly the most concise, and accurate analysis of these two disparate situations.
I don't see how the two situations are much alike. Israel has been pulling an apartheid of the Palestinians and Russia invaded Ukraine because Russian speakers were being murdered in a civil war. The only thing "alike" is Israel and Ukraine who feel they are superior to the people they are persecuting.
I agree. That's why I decided to see if anyone else found any similarities that I may have missed.
This kind of question can come only from a) a historically uninformed person or b) an ideological hack.
For the historically uninformed, Gaza is part of historic Palestine and Israel is the result of political Zionism, a settler colonial ethnic cleansing project hatched among non religious Jewish intellectuals as exactly such, settler colonial, within the logic of European settler colonialism. It was only possible with the collaboration of British imperialism in Palestine. We know that many parts of today's Ukraine were part of historic Russia and then USSR, we know that the lines after 1991 of Russia were haphazardly drawn, we know that the US qua US and as the head of NATO is absolutely interested in fragmenting any country that poses a threat to his imperial hegemony. I'm not going to rehearse that history, which is not an area of expertise. Rather I read and listen to people who know.
Well, we have plenty of good episodes. I just started this thread to see how others would interact if given such a comment. It's always good to infuse yourself with other people's ideas and thoughts!
You sound like a parrot for the Palestinian cause. There have been Jews in Palestine way long before the post-WW2 migration of European Jewish refugees. You seem to suffer from selective amnesia.
Palestine has been on the receiving end of anglo-european military aggression. Ukraine, on the other hand, has been receiving military and financial support by the same anglo-european powers for the sole purpose of containing Russia and by extension - Eurasia. Simply Palestine and Ukraine are polar opposites. Anyone who says these two are the same either do not know any better or DO NOT WANT to know any better.
Israel occupies palestine based on pure historical claims, internationally accepted due to holocaust and existing for 75 years .
Ukraine is happening for current reasons .
russia gave up ukraine at a weak moment due to collapse of USSR and has not tried to take it back till EU / NATO made it a contest and wanted ukraine in EU and started their campaign of insults to memory of WW-2, Banning any thing russian/ communist ( already perfected in baltics,poland) to ukraine .
As putin explained, russia has nowhere to go .Also ukraine is the one who is killing people
Ukraine: a US puppet state based around an extremely large Neo-Nazi kill squads tasked with ethnically cleansing to Donbass region to claim ownership of their industrial capital and function as NATO's staging ground for an array of nuclear capable mk. 41 VLS missile turrets trained on Russia with a ~5 minute flight time to Moscow, thus turning Ukraine into a literal doormat into Russia for US/NATO.
Palestine/Gaza: an indigenous community converted into an open air extermination camp by Israel with full and unconditional backing by the US in pursuit of beachfront property.
Granted it's a subtle difference, easy to miss but once you see it you can't stop seeing it. 🙃
More like there's a similarity between Israel and Ukraine in that they get plenty of funding from the US for weapons and training and then when you call them out on the monstrosities the little minions and bots come out of the woodwork to whine and attack you for it.
Also I love that some of them think you're with Amnesty 😂🤣🤦
Someone from Amnesty shared an article that I wrote. Somehow, Bad Baltic Takes decided to use some lame tweets I had to distract from the article. Apparently BBT followers are not very good at this literacy thing and they think I am with Amnesty and not that I wrote an article tweeted out by someone in Amnesty.
The fallacy of Keith's question is that he totally ignores Donbass. Donbass fighting Ukrainian fascist government for 8 long years. And fighting for its independency from Kiev. On Feb 22 2022 Russia stepping in and recognizing LDPR. On Feb 24 2022 LDPR asking for military support and Russia as an ally stepping in. Simple as that.
If you want to draw a parallel it would be like: Kiev = Israel and Donbass = Palestine. Russia helping her small brother. But cancel culture within corporative MSM did its dirty job: Donbass as a topic has been totally ignored yet cancelled deleted since 2014.
The current regime in Ukraine is not fascist. The leadership was supported by a majority of Ukrainians. The Russian-speaking minority in Ukraine is the result of Stalinist policy to prop up support (by undemocratic means) of the Soviet colonial occupation of Ukraine. It’s no different than China’s occupation of Tibet or the Xianjang Province and other minority regions of the Peoples’ Republic. Zzzzzzzzzzz.
This is historicly not banderaly. I am Ukrainian. My grandfathers died fighting Nazis. We will not go backwards. We know where we come from. We will not turn our backs on our family and friends, our traditions and lineage. I reject your cynical revisionism.
Oh you are just so smart Kerry
The Ukrainian president was voted in after running on a peace ticket all Ukrainians wanted peace except the Nazi gangs, and of course the us. And mr I want peace for Ukraine caved into the nazi and Nato nazi right away these thing happen to drug addicts. In case you are completely ignorant of the history of Ukraine. Russia gave up The eastern regions and did it’s best to try and resolve the issue with Ukraine with the Minsk agreement. Your little drug addict did nothing nor did the Germans or French all the while your nazi friend were attacking civilians. Russia stepped in to stop the Nazis stop the biological weapons facilities and prevent the nazis from getting nuclear weapons not to mention keeping Nato and the us out.
This seems like a loaded question.
Israel's assault on Palestinians is ethnic cleansing. They believe they are superior human beings endowed by God to murder Palestinians and steal their land. This very much resembles Nazi rhetoric of "ubermenschen". The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a very different thing. It would take too long to describe the situation, but basically it is a war engineered by the US . Forever wars are profitable for the oligarchs who actually control world politics. They pretend to care about civilian casualities when it promotes their agenda as in Ukraine, but in other situations as in Palestine, they do not.
What Israel “does” is different because the US Congress appropriates “aid money” to Israel each year when it authorizes a new US budget. This isn’t actually contradictory because our foreign aid to Israel directly increases *our* GDP, since it’s split into little pieces that can only be spent on, say, components for the Iron Dome or the bombs that killed 15 children in the last few days, and Congress further specifies the exact weapons manufacturers Israel may redeem this coupon and that coupon with. It’s like we send them a bunch of pre-filled personal checks from the Treasury to Lockheed, Northrop, Boeing, etc, with what kind of deadly product each check is for neatly typed on the notes section of the check. In a real sense these are American air strikes, in which the munitions have been selected by Congress and paid for with funds procured by Congress supposedly from American tax dollars (though of course that’s not how the federal government experiences manipulating its own currency). Effectively though it’s not wrong to call it tax money siphoned from Americans directly to defense contractors to subsidize GDP by exactly the amount Congress wishes. When you watch a video of an Israeli airstrike on an apartment building in Gaza, you’re probably watching innocent people die, but you’re also viewing the result of an unthinkably depraved version of quantitative easing (which is already depraved enough IMO). Then the ruling class of America claps because the line on their stock portfolios goes up, and they’re fine with the consequences.
Note I’m not even getting into the most obvious difference, that Israel is an apartheid state literally founded alongside apartheid South Africa... It’s not worth wasting time explaining something so obvious, is it?
On the other hand, in Russia/Ukraine, Congress passed a new lend/lease act so Ukraine is receiving their deadly weaponry from the US defense industry like Israel except that it’s not at all like Israel because at some point they run out of stockpiles and start producing more and Ukraine legally by act of Congress and Biden’s signature sends them little IOUs with no expectation or real obligation or plausible ability to ever pay us back. Biden demands Congress provide more foreign aid to Ukraine for “defense” every couple weeks, but Zelensky doesn’t need to use it to purchase weaponry from the US. We can now “lend” the heavy equipment to Kiev... sorry, “Kyiv”... at no cost to them. I’m not sympathetic to capital, but the line on the élite’s portfolios doesn’t go up when Ukraine incinerates Russian infantry using our massively expensive drones strapped with explosives like kamikaze homing devices. You’d think capital would be more irritated by that--that when they see footage of Ukrainian heavy artillery it isn’t a visual of their wealth increasing in direct proportion to how big the smoke plumes are. It’s *not* quantitative easing with the unnecessary proxy war step included because our politicians think that’s sensible legislative text to include, the US is in a sense seizing profits and suppressing the contribution of the defense industry to GDP because Putin Bad, they’re nostalgic for the constant terror of the Cold War but don’t have much longer to live anyway so the risks aren’t real to them, whatever, take your pick, there isn’t a single rational choice theorist who can invent a plausible motivation for every DC Beltway ghoul on this one.
They’re very different! This is a rant about one facet of how different they are. Just... put the propaganda down and think for a second, seriously confused twitter user in Esha’s mentions! You’l come up with something from the dozens and dozens of differences, I believe in you.
Thank you for this interesting tidbit on the increased gdp. I had no idea Israel i "aid" was so profitable.
Congress appropriated a flat $3 billion for Israeli military aid *every single year* from 1979 to 2019 (unfortunately, predictably, it was increased dramatically to $3.8b, not lowered). $3 billion in guaranteed annual padding to one industry, beginning at a time when America’s argument for global acquiescence to the so-called virtues of our rules based economic/imperial order relied on us being able to tout the “proof” of our defense industry posting profit after profit compared to the domestic economic conditions our Cold War foes faced as a result of us intervening in every way to kneecap their progress... this is a run-on sentence now, but 1979 wasn’t long after stagflation, and just about when we stopped pretending the UN had legitimacy to affect America’s bad behavior internationally, etc etc, it was a pretty telling year to institute a de facto mandatory $3 billion for Israel to pay right back to us in the NDAA every year. 1979’s American political & military leadership must’ve been remarkably insecure about the stability of their supposedly unshakable grand ideological project to do proto-QE 30 years before actual QE began, is all I’m saying.
Why all this talk about 1979? Well, people only know him nowadays for building houses for the poor & homeless and whatnot, but Jimmy Carter presided over a certain energy crisis that year sparked by the Iranian Revolution. He chose to address the ensuing recession with pretty radical (at the time) applications of neoliberal economic theory. The dude was in many ways the first neolib POTUS. Reagan and Clinton made it impossible to escape what Carter opened the door to, but yeah, $3 billion in military aid to Israel designed to return to American industry like a boomerang in 1979--when GDP was $2.6 trillion--was very significant and very corrupt and I don’t hear it brought up as much as it should be. It’s sort of a microcosm of a lot of things going wrong for the west and the first glimpse of the absolute cowardice we’ve maintained our illusion of a status quo with for so long. In actuality, lift the magic tricks of economists’ clever manipulation of data away and it’s all been in constant decay.
Sorry for the walls of text. I’m sick and apparently, now that I see my own post, one of the symptoms is an inability to use the return key 😫
We like walls. We like texts. Wall of texts is fine.
No one said there weren't Jews, Palestinian Jews and Jews from all over region and world. Don't confuse Jews with the European settler colonial Zionist project. My last comment to you.
I see 2 justifications used by Israel. 1)
God promised them Palestine 4,000 years ago and it is still theirs. 2) They won the 1948 and 1967 wars and victory allowed them to claim the territory they conquered. This is 2022. Is an approximately 4000 year old promise by their God still good? Israel had sovereignty over Palestine for much less than 1/2 of that 4000 years. Jesus seems to indicate that the land promise lapsed in 67 AD because of bad behavior. As far as land being a spoil of war, that was definitely accepted through most of history. But modern international law and war crimes law has moved away from allowing the stronger nations from taking what they want from the weaker nations even if the weaker nations start the war.
I just removed the comment because it was the same comment twice.
Well, I think the bigger issue is not Israel as a state per se..but Israel as an exclusionary state that excludes majority of the people living on that land. ...
I am sympathetic to both Israel and Russia, but I think Israel can make a somewhat stronger case for its actions:
Gaza, like the Westbank, is allegedly populated by Palestinians.
Prior to 1967, Gaza was controlled by Egypt and the Westbank was controlled by Jordan
In those days, no one said that the arab states of Egypt and Jordan were standing in the way of Palestinian Soverrignity. (There is no Palestinian language or religion and there has never been a Palestinian state. Palestinian identity was a fabrication designed to undermine Israel. They are ARABS, they are not Palestinians)
In 1967, Egypt, Jordan and Syria sought to destroy Israel. Israel won in the 6 day war. In defeating her foes, she held on to territories she had taken.
She was entitled to hold on to those territories. Without the occupied territories Israel would be 9 miles thick at its point of greatest population concentration and vulnerable to swift annihilation in a renewed Arab attack.
NEVERTHELESS, Israel agreed to withdraw from Gaza.
And the barbarous Arabs of Gaza constantly send missiles North into Israel.
Before Israel vacated Gaza, they left factories and money-making assets in Gaza to assist the Arabs.
And the Arabs show their thanks by raining missiles on Israel.
Burn, Gaza, Burn
Russia’s “military” response is an illegal invasion of Ukraine’s territorial sovereignty.
In the case of Israel’s response it is legal under International law and UN rules for Israel to defend its territorial integrity because Israel is defending itself against rocket attacks FROM the Hamas terrorist organization. The aggressor in this particular case was and is not Israel, but the Palestinian Terrorist group. Furthermore, the Gaza Strip is NOT occupied by Israel, and Gaza itself is part of the disputed territories that await a final negotiated solution.
Why does your assumption in your question ignore Hamas’s offensive and illegal actions whilst blaming Israel for defending itself? Every country has a Right and a Duty to protect and defend its territory and its people. May I suggest you read up on the rules of war.
If I am inside of Gaza, how can I leave? where are the exit ports? who controls them?
Hamas is responsible for its people, NOT Israel. Israel restricts Palestinian exit ports because the Palestinians continuously attack the State of Israel. Israel has a Right to send itself f to m terrorist attacks. You forget, we are not living in a situation of being surrounded by countries and organizations that DENY the legitimacy of Israel.
If Israel restricts exit ports, doesn't it become responsible for Palestinians inside of Gaza? How do they get food and water?
Israel allows commerce to enter Gaza from Egypt. When are the Palestinians going to take real responsibility to rein in Terrorism? The majority of both sides — civilians simply want to live in peace. As long as this tit-for-tat attacks / retaliation occurs, THERE IS LITTLE CHANCE FOR PEACE. It is so obvious. The blame goes to both sides for weak and narrow-minded leadership politics. There was a chance for peace but both sides ultimately could not trust each other to focus on diplomacy and not violence.
Thanks for telling me about the Egypt-Gaza corridor. I will check that out.
Israel and Egypt close said corridor during Israeli sieges on Gaza. It’s a big reason Egypt cares at all about trying to negotiating ceasefires as they just did this weekend, it affects their economy.
Also, what makes the elected leadership of any nation specifically “terrorist” I wonder? Is it the use of force before coming to power instead of only once they have a monopoly on state violence? Of course not, that would apply to most world governments and I suspiciously only ever hear this concept of terrorist-governance applied to Hamas and the Taliban. If Palestinian Gaza & the West Bank aren’t actually legitimate to someone, e.g. just some land in Israel that terrorists laid claim to a la ISIS’ caliphate, then how can they suggest it is Hamas, the elected government of Gaza, that bears responsibility for its citizens losing or keeping their lives? I thought Hamas were terrorists. Shifting baselines are strong here. And again, In my 32 years I’ve only heard the political leadership of internationally recognized nations referred to as terrorist in Gaza, Afghanistan, Iraq but not for some time, Iran, Libya, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Colombia...
Hmm I’m approaching a theme here, interesting that even as long as Russia has been the West’s boogeyman, when we’re only interacting here today because many can’t grasp the basic features of the Russian invasion or the unprovoked bombing of Gaza by Israel last week, such that these events ought to be somehow flattened into being just the same, Putin gets called a thug and worse than Hitler but the members of the Russian government, Putin included, aren’t dismissed as literal terrorists without state legitimacy. Neither is Ukraine’s government, whose leaders were placed in power following a Western-run coup which yes, used violence before it led the state military, and since coming to power has invited literal Nazis to spearhead its most sensitive military operations under the training of US military members. Now does that mean the Ukrainian people should be caught in this invasion? No. Does it mean Zelensky’s party is merely a crew of terrorists playing at statecraft and not a respected actor internationally? If you believe it about Hamas, logically Ukraine isn’t run by politicians but terrorists, because the logic applies just as well. But no, the EU is courting them, not to mention NATO, so no side of the conflict is called terrorists. This only seems okay to anyone in the western empire whenever they’re Europeans, whenever they look more or less like our own leaders, whenever said leaders put these non-terrorist white democracy defenders into power and pretends to care about them as more than puppets for proxy wars, the closer you drift to the equator it stops mattering and it becomes not just possible bud common sense to have this absurd notion that nations are run by disorganized, barbaric terrorists. Not even state sponsors of terrorism in these cases, just, Hamas is a bunch of terrorists.
Some people could use a dictionary almost as much as I need to remember that paragraphs should still be a thing even when I’m sick in bed straight up ranting on my phone... gosh. But this has pissed me off since I was 12 watching CNN push that it was our duty to invade Iraq because Saddam and his government were terrorists out to get us like Al Qaeda. Terrorists can’t be the state, the dry definition of terrorism is violence carried out in order to force changes in state policy. When a government wants to force changes in another state’s government it doesn’t engage in terrorist acts, they’re called acts of war at that point instead!!!
If anyone needs to reign in terrorism, it's the Israelis. Terror is literally their policy
That is total rubbish, Norville. You don’t know your Middle-Eastern history and politics very well, do you.
Yah right Israel allows starvation commerce in. Always enough to say it lets it in but never enough to keep it healthy We call that slow genocide just like in the polish ghetto
That's a lot of words for you can't leave.
It was requested by the Russians in Donetsk and Luhansk. It was voted on by the Russian Parliament. What an insane lie.
You are referring to Russian speaking immigrants who were strategically relocated to Ukraine during Stalin’s time to manage the occupied government of that era. Same has occurred in all of the former Soviet Republics that are technically Independent of Russia in the “Russian Federation. The Chinese Communist Party has done much the same in Tibet, Xianjang Province. Shall I go on?
I wrote a comprehensive article on the history of Tibet. https://www.historicly.net/p/tibet-china-and-the-violent-reaction
Your point is irrelevant, because these breakaway regions of Ukraine were a majority Russian-speaking minority that refused to remain as part of Ukraine. Stalin, like Mao and other Totalitarian (Communist States) practiced ethnic intimidation by forcefully resettling Russians in Ukraine to better control the the region. Russian leadership is quick to forget and ignore that Ukraine was occupied during the era of Soviet Hegemony. Same goes for all the Central Asian now independent Republics like Tajikistan, etc.
Easy there, Senator McCarthy
The lunatic has no idea of the history of Russia or Asia for that matter, he just pontificates thinking like Blinkin we will all fall in line. Some of us actually know Russia and Chinese history. Israel doesn’t teach history it teaches fantasy propaganda
yes!