The powers of nature kill people. everybody knows that. but those people died under these regimes and you know well and yet straddling on their corpses seems to be quite easy for you. Not uncommon, actually expected, terribly boring.
So you're saying that they were killed by nature, but because they were killed by nature in communist countries, they were in fact the victims of communism.
Really, why stop there? You could also include the victims of old age.
Great post (although some of the text seems to be repeated), it's such a shame that the vast majority of those who hear the 100m figure will never bother to question it. It's become part of the circular anti-communist ideology that most of us in the West have grown up with: communism is evil because it killed millions of people, and the reason why we believe that it killed millions of people is its inherent evil. When all the media you have access to insists that this is true, and everyone you talk to about it looks at you like you're crazy for questioning it, the net effect is for most people not to question it.
So the widespread human rights abuses has not resulted in precisely 100 million deaths, could be more, could be less? We have an entire article focused on the number, not why it is so destructive to society. All you have to do is look at countries where masses flee from and what countries they go to. Full stop.
Craig - There simply IS no "society" in the Capitalist world. Unless each and every "member" of said Society has a PLACE, ie, employment and a living wage - then what we have doesn't meet the DEFINITION of a Society. Thatcher said it's a "market place" - ok, I'll accept that - but not "society".
The earlier stated fact remains true, Capitalist democracies consistently outperform communist countries on HDI (Human Development Index), particularly at the highest levels, reflecting greater average prosperity, innovation-driven growth, and resource allocation toward human development outcomes. The highest HDI scores correlate with open markets, rule of law, and democratic institutions combined with social policies. It is simple data, not my opinion.
No system is perfect. But I can’t help but note that in the referendum in 1991, an overwhelming number of Soviet citizens by a wide margin voted to CONTINUE the USSR.
Capitalist democracies (U.S., Germany, Canada, Australia) are top destinations for refugees and economic migrants globally, including those fleeing communist regimes. But it really is not an academic exercise, it is a lived experience. When you have lived under both, you know the difference.
Many people who have lived under both, such as citizens of Russia old enough to remember the USSR, preferred living under socialism to capitalism: "More than 6-in-10 Russians consider it a 'great misfortune that the Soviet Union no longer exists,' according to a new Pew survey....Just 22% in Russia say ordinary people have benefited from the changes since 1991, while 57% say life is worse than it was under communism." And you call communist governance "destructive to society" yet it provided free/universal education and healthcare, cheap housing, affordable food, and in general a full complement of the basic necessities of life not available to people there prior to the Bolshevik Revolution or to people in capitalist countries then or now. In the heart of the capitalist world, the US, vast numbers of people live in dire poverty, lacking adequate food or even a roof over their heads despite living in the richest country in world history. Homelessness and hunger are nonexistent in China today, and whereas in the US millions of people have more than $10,000 in medical debt, medical debt has never existed in communist countries. It is for such reasons that most people who have lived under both prefer socialism to capitalism.
Capitalist democracies consistently outperform communist countries on HDI (Human Development Index), particularly at the highest levels, reflecting greater average prosperity, innovation-driven growth, and resource allocation toward human development outcomes. The highest HDI scores correlate with open markets, rule of law, and democratic institutions combined with social policies. However, some communist states (especially Cuba historically, and China/Vietnam recently) achieve strong outcomes in specific areas like basic health and education relative to their income levels, often outperforming similarly poor capitalist countries in those metrics. But sadly no communist country reaches "Very High HDI".
The claim that they "consistently outperform communist countries" on the HDI is nonsense. The only one of the bottom 30 that isn't a capitalist country is Yemen, which has been economically devastated by decades of war at the hands of Saudi Arabia, the US, and their allies. And almost all of the top 30 are countries that have benefited directly from colonialism, with some of them such as Australia, the US, and Israel being settler-colonial states themselves; some of them also benefited heavily from participating in the slave trade. Conversely, ALL of the socialist states—Cuba, Vietnam, China, etc.—are former VICTIMS of colonialism (and several of them also of devastating wars or sanctions). China, for instance, was one of the very poorest countries in the world when its revolution happened in 1949, with an average life expectancy of around 35 and a very high illiteracy rate. And yet in terms of key aspects of human development such as life expectancy, infant mortality, and literacy, several socialist states such as Cuba and China rank near the top. Socialist states also have much higher rates of homeownership than quite wealthy capitalist states such as the US, the UK, and Canada. When compared with states that have faced comparable circumstances (e.g., China in comparison to India, which gained nominal independence from colonialism at about the same time as China's revolution), the socialist states compare very favorably. China's RATE of economic growth over the past several decades is unprecedented in world history, moving it from one of the poorest few countries in the world in 1949 to an upper middle-income country today, with a quality of life far higher than the nominal income level due to the quality of its infrastructure and social programs. It also is a global leader in various aspects of science and technology, including being the undisputed global leader in development of "green" energy.
You conveniently ignore why people leave their decimated countries for the US—that reason being that it was specifically the US that destabilized these countries. Anyone who pretends that the US is a democratic country needs to get a conscience and actually crack open some books. The US is a country founded on genocide, slavery, racism, misogyny, and land theft. And it is now the country that is most responsible for Israel’s genocide against Palestine. The words “democracy” and “the US” should never be used in the same sentence, except to expose why the US has never been a democracy, and is now flat-out fascist. And, of course, my comments also are applicable to all of the other western colonialist, land and resource thieving, war criminal, Western non-democracies. They’ve never seen a democracy, which serves its own people, not corporate interests, that they don’t want to destroy.
Actually, it did. In philadelphia in 1985. The philadelphia police dropped bombs on a black resistance house and allowed the subsequent fire to burn the neighborhood, killing 6 adults and 5 children.
You conveniently ignored the facts that I just stated. But referring to your ideological tangent, America, like every country in history, has flaws and dark chapters. But we're also the greatest force for freedom and opportunity the world has seen—a constitutional republic built on individual liberty, rule of law, and self-governance. Calling it "fascist" or denying its democratic foundations ignores the elections, rights, and prosperity that draw people here legally from everywhere. There is a reason why when the United States adopts open boarders, 15-20 million people come here in only 4 years time. Oddly enough, it is why California is the most exited state in United States while at the same time it is the most geographically beautiful.
Have you read even one history book? The US is the greatest force for violence and evil the world has ever faced. And, right now, this shithole empire, in decline, is partnering in Israel’s genocide. It is a country founded on genocide, slavery, racism, misogyny, rape, murder, inequality, and land and resource theft. It is rightly the most hated country in human history. Get a conscience and educate yourself, as you are supporting a murderously fascist, genocidal, crumbling, empire. The people “drawn here” are escaping their home countries, which US colonial imperialism has wrecked, for corporate profit, and geopolitical positioning. And when these people whose homes the US destroyed come here, ICE storm troopers kidnap, and throw into hell holes—along with US citizens and activists. Elections, prosperity, haha—again, educate yourself.
I wish these people had actual sympathy for victims instead of this imaginary, politicized caricature. Maybe we wouldn’t be living through something called “an outbreak of deaths of despair”
UnitedStates Of War, BaseNation researcher Dr. David Vine, BrownUniverity CostOfWar Project~ Post9/11, $189 BILLION Dollars INVESTED by ZioNaziDC in MassMurder-MassDestructionWar, has FORCED 38-60Million WarRefugees into Homelessness and murdered at least 4.5MILLION over 20 years between 2001 and 2021.
Excellent piece. Another pet peeve is that authors making claims about the number of people communism has supposedly “killed” never then make the logical comparison to how many people capitalism may have killed.
After all, global neoliberalism currently lets 100 million people starve to death each and every decade, something that is seldom ever pointed out.
Communism hasn't yet manifested. There is not one case of a Communist state in human history. It is responsible for zero deaths, as an actual manifestation.
Mass deaths during attempts have either occurred because of Hegemonic interference and sabotage or the upper and ruling classes failing to relinquish the reigns of their imposed inequities; those creatures had to be rendered harmless. We see the error of letting them live: look at Taiwan.
Communism will never exist as a compromise or through reformism. No trace of the pathogenesis of capitalist or class stratification can be allowed to remain, and Communism must be global and with collective human being as highest value, with its greater supportive ecology being the next highest; in our value systems.
We can achieve moderate sustainable prosperity for All with water, appropriate food, adequate shelter, basic medicine, and education through to profession, as human rights for every human being. We have the means to achieve this sustainably, we only need to take back power and excess.
Both systems kill both their own populations and others.
We live in and have always lived in a world where money and military strength determine more than ideology ever could.
Choosing left or right is a fun version of the oldest game in the book for those up above (divide and conquer). For those of us below, it is merely picking which shoe goes up your arse.
Marxist stalinist maoist - commumism isnt hard to understand in its basic form - a community run by the community for the community.
Giving it labels, just gives half the people something to fear.. “mao? Wasnt he a bad guy”
why dont we ever say “hitlerist” he was all about capital wasnt he? Socialism is how those above co-opted the message off communism for there own ends and to wave around as a voting sponge.
Hence you get 2 parties supposedly different - conservative (also a form off capitalism) versus socialism - yet made up off people from entirely the same backgrounds(above) vying for the same block off voters (those below) with varying degrees of bullshit, either way you end up with THE SAME PEOPLE in charge..
Yet we never just look at it for what the words mean -
CAPITALism is a system run by Capital for the benefit of those with Capital.
COMMUN(ITY)ism is a system run by the community for the benefit off the community.
To pretend capitalism could ever be for the benefit off the whole community is simply misidentifying or willfully misidentifying what it is, in its purest term.
Communism i believe in its basic form is about those below not those on the left.
They have co-opted it just to try gain power but as we see with all opposition parties once in power - the very same game, because they dont want to change it, why would they - theyve done quite well out off the system they just want there person running the show.
Technically, yes communism did kill that many people but by the enemies of communism. With sanctions , wars, regime changes. Most of which would have been avoided if they were capitalist. I am not advocating for these outcomes but feel it's necessary to see the full picture.
God there is a huge chunk of you obsessed with interchanging ‘Communism’ with ‘Totalitarianism’ then making propaganda to McArthy everyone into stupidity. Have any of you ever calculated the number of deaths caused by so called ‘capitalist’ endeavours releasing toxic chemicals into the global food chain, or carcinogens or toxins introduced into our fricking everything? I guarantee you that this is what will kill almost all of you. Billions more than the authoritarian regimes could ever dream if. Communist governments for sure makes it easier to install a singular dictator and this sucks… but a two party system doesn't offer much more variety, if the assholes wanna hurt us, they will, it doesn't matter the system. Try not paying your taxes in the US and see how fast your ‘freedom’ gets yanked in your fictional ‘free-market’ society. Maybe just try giving a shit about your neighbours without putting a label on it and watch life your own life get better.
Communism is doomed because it destroys the very mechanism by which society coordinates economic activity: the price system. Without prices, rational economic calculation is impossible. To enforce collective ownership, the state must coerce individuals, crushing freedom and initiative. Communism does not merely mismanage the economy; it replaces voluntary social cooperation with authoritarian control, and in doing so, dooms both prosperity and liberty.
There were three main issues: 1. Fungus infection 2. Weather conditions 3. Sanctions
The powers of nature kill people. everybody knows that. but those people died under these regimes and you know well and yet straddling on their corpses seems to be quite easy for you. Not uncommon, actually expected, terribly boring.
So you're saying that they were killed by nature, but because they were killed by nature in communist countries, they were in fact the victims of communism.
Really, why stop there? You could also include the victims of old age.
Or the children of Nazis not born because communists killed the nazi (which is one of the black book's methodological)
In the 1990ies, the archives of both the KGB and the CPSU were totally opened for a period of time.
And surprise, surprise… How many people died in GULAGs in almost 30 years from 1930 to 1957?
Around 1.6-1.7 million. By far the largest number of these, died during WW2 when even many Russians died of starvation and malnutrition.
And mind you, these are internal KGB numbers that they’d have no reason to lie about.
And what is the total killed in the last 85 coups/wars by the US? More
Great post (although some of the text seems to be repeated), it's such a shame that the vast majority of those who hear the 100m figure will never bother to question it. It's become part of the circular anti-communist ideology that most of us in the West have grown up with: communism is evil because it killed millions of people, and the reason why we believe that it killed millions of people is its inherent evil. When all the media you have access to insists that this is true, and everyone you talk to about it looks at you like you're crazy for questioning it, the net effect is for most people not to question it.
The black book Is incredibly repetitive text. They make up numbers from whole cloth.
hundreds of millions killed by capitalism, The documentation is all there
Very important work !! You're leaving the anti-communists TWISTING IN THE WIND !
So the widespread human rights abuses has not resulted in precisely 100 million deaths, could be more, could be less? We have an entire article focused on the number, not why it is so destructive to society. All you have to do is look at countries where masses flee from and what countries they go to. Full stop.
Craig - There simply IS no "society" in the Capitalist world. Unless each and every "member" of said Society has a PLACE, ie, employment and a living wage - then what we have doesn't meet the DEFINITION of a Society. Thatcher said it's a "market place" - ok, I'll accept that - but not "society".
The earlier stated fact remains true, Capitalist democracies consistently outperform communist countries on HDI (Human Development Index), particularly at the highest levels, reflecting greater average prosperity, innovation-driven growth, and resource allocation toward human development outcomes. The highest HDI scores correlate with open markets, rule of law, and democratic institutions combined with social policies. It is simple data, not my opinion.
OHNOES! Not “widespread human right abuses”!
No system is perfect. But I can’t help but note that in the referendum in 1991, an overwhelming number of Soviet citizens by a wide margin voted to CONTINUE the USSR.
Capitalist democracies (U.S., Germany, Canada, Australia) are top destinations for refugees and economic migrants globally, including those fleeing communist regimes. But it really is not an academic exercise, it is a lived experience. When you have lived under both, you know the difference.
Many people who have lived under both, such as citizens of Russia old enough to remember the USSR, preferred living under socialism to capitalism: "More than 6-in-10 Russians consider it a 'great misfortune that the Soviet Union no longer exists,' according to a new Pew survey....Just 22% in Russia say ordinary people have benefited from the changes since 1991, while 57% say life is worse than it was under communism." And you call communist governance "destructive to society" yet it provided free/universal education and healthcare, cheap housing, affordable food, and in general a full complement of the basic necessities of life not available to people there prior to the Bolshevik Revolution or to people in capitalist countries then or now. In the heart of the capitalist world, the US, vast numbers of people live in dire poverty, lacking adequate food or even a roof over their heads despite living in the richest country in world history. Homelessness and hunger are nonexistent in China today, and whereas in the US millions of people have more than $10,000 in medical debt, medical debt has never existed in communist countries. It is for such reasons that most people who have lived under both prefer socialism to capitalism.
Capitalist democracies consistently outperform communist countries on HDI (Human Development Index), particularly at the highest levels, reflecting greater average prosperity, innovation-driven growth, and resource allocation toward human development outcomes. The highest HDI scores correlate with open markets, rule of law, and democratic institutions combined with social policies. However, some communist states (especially Cuba historically, and China/Vietnam recently) achieve strong outcomes in specific areas like basic health and education relative to their income levels, often outperforming similarly poor capitalist countries in those metrics. But sadly no communist country reaches "Very High HDI".
The claim that they "consistently outperform communist countries" on the HDI is nonsense. The only one of the bottom 30 that isn't a capitalist country is Yemen, which has been economically devastated by decades of war at the hands of Saudi Arabia, the US, and their allies. And almost all of the top 30 are countries that have benefited directly from colonialism, with some of them such as Australia, the US, and Israel being settler-colonial states themselves; some of them also benefited heavily from participating in the slave trade. Conversely, ALL of the socialist states—Cuba, Vietnam, China, etc.—are former VICTIMS of colonialism (and several of them also of devastating wars or sanctions). China, for instance, was one of the very poorest countries in the world when its revolution happened in 1949, with an average life expectancy of around 35 and a very high illiteracy rate. And yet in terms of key aspects of human development such as life expectancy, infant mortality, and literacy, several socialist states such as Cuba and China rank near the top. Socialist states also have much higher rates of homeownership than quite wealthy capitalist states such as the US, the UK, and Canada. When compared with states that have faced comparable circumstances (e.g., China in comparison to India, which gained nominal independence from colonialism at about the same time as China's revolution), the socialist states compare very favorably. China's RATE of economic growth over the past several decades is unprecedented in world history, moving it from one of the poorest few countries in the world in 1949 to an upper middle-income country today, with a quality of life far higher than the nominal income level due to the quality of its infrastructure and social programs. It also is a global leader in various aspects of science and technology, including being the undisputed global leader in development of "green" energy.
You conveniently ignore why people leave their decimated countries for the US—that reason being that it was specifically the US that destabilized these countries. Anyone who pretends that the US is a democratic country needs to get a conscience and actually crack open some books. The US is a country founded on genocide, slavery, racism, misogyny, and land theft. And it is now the country that is most responsible for Israel’s genocide against Palestine. The words “democracy” and “the US” should never be used in the same sentence, except to expose why the US has never been a democracy, and is now flat-out fascist. And, of course, my comments also are applicable to all of the other western colonialist, land and resource thieving, war criminal, Western non-democracies. They’ve never seen a democracy, which serves its own people, not corporate interests, that they don’t want to destroy.
Because the US won't bomb itself :)
Actually, it did. In philadelphia in 1985. The philadelphia police dropped bombs on a black resistance house and allowed the subsequent fire to burn the neighborhood, killing 6 adults and 5 children.
You conveniently ignored the facts that I just stated. But referring to your ideological tangent, America, like every country in history, has flaws and dark chapters. But we're also the greatest force for freedom and opportunity the world has seen—a constitutional republic built on individual liberty, rule of law, and self-governance. Calling it "fascist" or denying its democratic foundations ignores the elections, rights, and prosperity that draw people here legally from everywhere. There is a reason why when the United States adopts open boarders, 15-20 million people come here in only 4 years time. Oddly enough, it is why California is the most exited state in United States while at the same time it is the most geographically beautiful.
Have you read even one history book? The US is the greatest force for violence and evil the world has ever faced. And, right now, this shithole empire, in decline, is partnering in Israel’s genocide. It is a country founded on genocide, slavery, racism, misogyny, rape, murder, inequality, and land and resource theft. It is rightly the most hated country in human history. Get a conscience and educate yourself, as you are supporting a murderously fascist, genocidal, crumbling, empire. The people “drawn here” are escaping their home countries, which US colonial imperialism has wrecked, for corporate profit, and geopolitical positioning. And when these people whose homes the US destroyed come here, ICE storm troopers kidnap, and throw into hell holes—along with US citizens and activists. Elections, prosperity, haha—again, educate yourself.
"But we're also the greatest force for freedom and opportunity the world has seen..."
No.
I wish these people had actual sympathy for victims instead of this imaginary, politicized caricature. Maybe we wouldn’t be living through something called “an outbreak of deaths of despair”
CAPITALISM KILLS ~ KILL CAPITALISM
UnitedStates Of War, BaseNation researcher Dr. David Vine, BrownUniverity CostOfWar Project~ Post9/11, $189 BILLION Dollars INVESTED by ZioNaziDC in MassMurder-MassDestructionWar, has FORCED 38-60Million WarRefugees into Homelessness and murdered at least 4.5MILLION over 20 years between 2001 and 2021.
https://www.davidvine.net/costsofwar.html
Excellent piece. Another pet peeve is that authors making claims about the number of people communism has supposedly “killed” never then make the logical comparison to how many people capitalism may have killed.
After all, global neoliberalism currently lets 100 million people starve to death each and every decade, something that is seldom ever pointed out.
Communism hasn't yet manifested. There is not one case of a Communist state in human history. It is responsible for zero deaths, as an actual manifestation.
Mass deaths during attempts have either occurred because of Hegemonic interference and sabotage or the upper and ruling classes failing to relinquish the reigns of their imposed inequities; those creatures had to be rendered harmless. We see the error of letting them live: look at Taiwan.
Communism will never exist as a compromise or through reformism. No trace of the pathogenesis of capitalist or class stratification can be allowed to remain, and Communism must be global and with collective human being as highest value, with its greater supportive ecology being the next highest; in our value systems.
We can achieve moderate sustainable prosperity for All with water, appropriate food, adequate shelter, basic medicine, and education through to profession, as human rights for every human being. We have the means to achieve this sustainably, we only need to take back power and excess.
Both systems kill both their own populations and others.
We live in and have always lived in a world where money and military strength determine more than ideology ever could.
Choosing left or right is a fun version of the oldest game in the book for those up above (divide and conquer). For those of us below, it is merely picking which shoe goes up your arse.
Marxist stalinist maoist - commumism isnt hard to understand in its basic form - a community run by the community for the community.
Giving it labels, just gives half the people something to fear.. “mao? Wasnt he a bad guy”
why dont we ever say “hitlerist” he was all about capital wasnt he? Socialism is how those above co-opted the message off communism for there own ends and to wave around as a voting sponge.
Hence you get 2 parties supposedly different - conservative (also a form off capitalism) versus socialism - yet made up off people from entirely the same backgrounds(above) vying for the same block off voters (those below) with varying degrees of bullshit, either way you end up with THE SAME PEOPLE in charge..
Yet we never just look at it for what the words mean -
CAPITALism is a system run by Capital for the benefit of those with Capital.
COMMUN(ITY)ism is a system run by the community for the benefit off the community.
To pretend capitalism could ever be for the benefit off the whole community is simply misidentifying or willfully misidentifying what it is, in its purest term.
Communism i believe in its basic form is about those below not those on the left.
They have co-opted it just to try gain power but as we see with all opposition parties once in power - the very same game, because they dont want to change it, why would they - theyve done quite well out off the system they just want there person running the show.
Technically, yes communism did kill that many people but by the enemies of communism. With sanctions , wars, regime changes. Most of which would have been avoided if they were capitalist. I am not advocating for these outcomes but feel it's necessary to see the full picture.
God there is a huge chunk of you obsessed with interchanging ‘Communism’ with ‘Totalitarianism’ then making propaganda to McArthy everyone into stupidity. Have any of you ever calculated the number of deaths caused by so called ‘capitalist’ endeavours releasing toxic chemicals into the global food chain, or carcinogens or toxins introduced into our fricking everything? I guarantee you that this is what will kill almost all of you. Billions more than the authoritarian regimes could ever dream if. Communist governments for sure makes it easier to install a singular dictator and this sucks… but a two party system doesn't offer much more variety, if the assholes wanna hurt us, they will, it doesn't matter the system. Try not paying your taxes in the US and see how fast your ‘freedom’ gets yanked in your fictional ‘free-market’ society. Maybe just try giving a shit about your neighbours without putting a label on it and watch life your own life get better.
Communism is doomed because it destroys the very mechanism by which society coordinates economic activity: the price system. Without prices, rational economic calculation is impossible. To enforce collective ownership, the state must coerce individuals, crushing freedom and initiative. Communism does not merely mismanage the economy; it replaces voluntary social cooperation with authoritarian control, and in doing so, dooms both prosperity and liberty.
What is also overlooked is the Central Banking Cartel's responsibility for both creating the Bolsheviks and supporting Mao Zedong...